Cultural Competency

Jamie and her guest, Ethan Schimel from Platinum Properties, discuss their personal experiences in the workforce and the need for creating inclusive and accepting environments for everyone.

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Jamie: It's Jamie Heiberger Harrison here today teaching Cultural Competency and I will be joined by Ethan Schimel, who is a family friend and part of the LGBT community and I'm very excited to have him here. Hi there.

Ethan: Hey Jamie.

Jamie: Hi Ethan. How are you?

Ethan: I'm good. How are you doing?

Jamie: I'm doing okay. And like you, most of the people on here are real estate brokers as well. Are you a sales agent? What's your exact title at this point?

Ethan: You could say sales agent, sales person, real estate agent. It's all pretty much in one.

Jamie: I w­as reflecting on a couple of things you and I talked about when we were saying, well, what are we going to discuss here? And I was saying to you how I was talking about before you came on here, the fair housing disclosure notice that all agents have to provide. That's such a great example of where New York has kind of made this focus on taking a stance on encouraging education, right?

Ethan: Definitely.

Jamie: One of the reasons why I wanted to have you on here was for your own personal experiences and what you've seen coming in. Tell us a little bit about what you do and what your background is first, and then I think it would be great just for somebody who kind of is newer to the workforce, right? Having not that long ago graduated. I believe sports management was your program at Syracuse, is that right?

Ethan: Yep.

Jamie: Congratulations.

Ethan: Thanks.

Jamie: And so tell us a little bit about your journey so far.

Ethan: I'm currently 25 years old. I graduated in 2021 from Syracuse University. I majored in sports management at the David B. Faulk School in Human Dynamics. I'm currently working for New York City Football Club. Also working for New Jersey, New York Gotham FC, which is the women's New York City soccer team. And then obviously doing real estate as well currently. I studied sports in college and I love working in the sports industry, but I've always had an interest in real estate as well. Got my license, took all the tests and courses, and got my license over the summer. Joined with the Platinum Properties and have been with Platinum since January. Like you were saying, with Fair Housing, we deal with that obviously. With every client you have to present them with that.

And it's interesting because obviously that's such a crucial piece for every agent to know those laws and to present that to a client. But when I was looking for an apartment a year out of college in 2022, I was dealing with an agent that didn't show me any of that and didn't really walk me through the whole process of everything I need to know and kind of just rushed me into signing. So it was good to see when I was on the other side like, okay, that's not the way to do it. You have to walk clients through the process and explain all these different types of laws and things that they should know.

Jamie: Absolutely. It's interesting, I didn't even know that story that you had yourself, but I do remember when you were getting your own place. I mean it's not even just this notice, there's so many rules that have now come out and it's not just, and I'm sure you have this even at working for the New York Football Club. I'm sure that when you came in there, there are certain rules that are posted whether they're on the website or internally... ways of conduct that you have to follow even there, not just at the real estate, with the real estate company, right?

Ethan: Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, we had a whole training orientation for almost an entire week of just the exact guidelines and obviously specifications that they wanted us to follow. And obviously rules are rules. You got to follow them in whatever job you're doing.

Jamie: Right. Just in terms of for me, when I was going through the workforce, going before judges, I think to a certain extent, one of the reasons why I'm how I am... we are all a product of stuff that's gone on when we were younger or the role that we take. And for me, it was creating this very tough persona, so to speak, in the business world because I've been in it for over 35 years now, and it was different. These rules, they did not exist. I'm not even sure, I think even if we look at financially how men were paid when I entered the workforce versus women, I'm pretty sure that it was still a huge difference. And so when I have people come on and I'm teaching this class, it's always great to hear if there's any personal experiences that you've had and why you think creating a culturally competent environment, whether it's on a real estate team or in any type of company is so important.

Ethan: It's definitely obviously a crucial piece of any industry, team, organization. You want to obviously build a workforce or work environment that everybody feels comfortable in. With real estate, obviously there's a vast variety of people that you're going to encounter, whether it's within your own real estate brokerage or a client that you're going to meet. You never know what type of person you're going to meet. And with the soccer teams that I work for, there's so many international aspects of it where you get people from all over the world who are covering the game, who are coming to watch the game, who don't speak English. So it's definitely you want to create an environment where everybody is welcome, no matter where they're from or who they are. So that's obviously a huge piece to any industry, any organization, soccer, real estate -- it's definitely crucial to build that inclusive safe environment.

Jamie: Absolutely. It's funny how much it bothered me when I heard this story when you were interviewing and somebody commented on your earrings, and I guess maybe back in the day, I think that there were offices that you actually couldn't, men could not wear your earrings or people couldn't wear certain clothing and you can't do that these days. And it was amazing to me that somebody made a comment about the earrings just because in this day and age, who makes those comments? What is that?

Ethan: It was definitely a shock to me as well. People who are watching, I do have little hoop earrings on right now. I have my nails painted and when I had spoken to this person about interviewing and I was on a Zoom call just like this, they had noticed my earrings and they had obviously brought that up and said that it's not an issue, but it could drive potential interviewers or other people away, which I thought was interesting. Obviously given the time in the world we live in today, and just that they would signal that out, which was a shock to me. That was honestly my second experience interviewing and somebody saying, "oh, that's not what they were looking for" or they noticed it. I also had an interview with WME and they required me to wear a button down shirt and a tie.

And I typically wear more dresses or skirts or more feminine attire to work, whether it's soccer or real estate. So when they had said that to me like, oh, we expect you to look a certain way, it kind of puts you in a box and doesn't give you that freedom and comfortability to be yourself within a company or organization. Who wants to work in an environment like that where you don't feel comfortable being yourself and they try to make you look a certain type of way. So both those were shocks to me coming out of college in 2021 and interviewing and having those experiences early were definitely a little scary, but they definitely also helped me, at the same time. I just wanted to be determined to be even more myself in the workforce and find a place that was the right spot for me that I could feel comfortable as myself.

Jamie: I have chills. I have goosebumps right now, I swear. Because you and I were talking and you know, I'm a huge Ethan fan. I love you. I adore you. Your mom's my best friend.

Ethan: I'm a huge Jamie fan too.

Jamie: Thank you. I've known you since you were born and when you and I were talking and there was someplace I was going to introduce you to and you asked me, "is it okay if I were to wear a dress," and for that place, I really thought it wasn't. Not because I cared, but because I felt that you know what, it would be too conservative. And I thought a lot about that and it makes me so happy because you're right, and you were at a different place then also, right? Because you're looking to get in somewhere and then it's like that struggle of do I suck up certain things and take the job even though I am not entirely comfortable? And you were awesome. You were kind of willing to do that on some level. You were looking for where am I going to go? Where am I going? I want to meet people. So kudos to you.

Ethan: Like you said, joining new places or interviewing at a place that maybe might be more conservative than others, it's okay to ease into it I realized. When I started working at the soccer team, right away I didn't start wearing dresses or skirts to the games. I was wearing a suit just because that's what my boss said he wears and that's what he said. He expects us to dress up very formally for events or games that we're working. And obviously when I first got there, I'm pretty low on the totem pole, trying to make a name for myself. I wasn't really trying to rub anyone the wrong way. So I would wear suits the first season I worked there. And then this season, I started to do that again and was debating whether or not this was the right time. I didn't want to possibly lose my job.

I really just trying to keep my foot in the door and just work, but I decided I have to be all in on this and I have to be true to myself. And I started dressing how I wanted to games and it's been a non-issue. People have complimented me within the team. If anything, it makes me more noticeable, I would think. There's not too many guys wearing dresses or skirts at sporting events usually, or at least at work for many sport organizations in any sports. So I think it's only helped me. I do think that it was perfect timing, kind of wearing suits, not conforming at the beginning, but easing into it, really learning the people I was going to be working with, the environment and just getting used to that whole environment and everything as a whole just so I could feel more comfortable when I was ready to start dressing how I wanted to.

Jamie: The confidence and comfort in who you are is like radiating, Ethan. Keep just doing what you're doing. There are people that will be watching this and have their own children that they may identify as both. They may identify as the opposite of what they were born. And it's so encouraging for them to sit here and you feel so good in your own skin and really, I mean, look, you're defying the odds in terms of even the career move. There are probably a lot of kids out there half your age. How old are you now?

Ethan: 25.

Jamie: Okay. So there's kids out there half your age in between whatever, and they may love sports. I mean, I remember how much you loved sports. You were always playing sports, you wanted to know everything about sports. You got into a very prestigious school over there at Syracuse for sports management. And I told you this yesterday when your mom said he wants to do sports, but what does sports mean? And guess what, you found your little niche and congrats. I mean, you started off with one team and now how many teams are you working with?

Ethan: Yeah, I started off with the one, now I have two teams and I work for the minor league team as well, so it's kind of three. But yeah, it definitely keeps me busy and I love it. I was not the biggest soccer fan coming into it, but now I definitely appreciate soccer a lot more just from watching hundreds of games recently.

Jamie: Yeah, I mean look, there's a reason why it's probably one of the most popular sports outside of our country. I think it's great, Ethan. And from a real estate perspective, definitely keep one foot in because I know that most of the real estate companies out there, probably yours as well, I believe that they all have a sports and entertainment department where the company works with professional athletes. And certainly with your background, maybe you'll be the person to help house the athletes when they come into town.

Ethan: Yeah.

Jamie: Definitely. This falls right into innovation, creating an innovative culture, doing something a little bit different. I'm really curious, Ethan, with your background, if you were to take, let's say sports and the opportunities available in the L-G-B-T-Q community. Do you think that the opportunities are, I hate to say it so simplistically, but is it fair? Or do you see a need for improvement there?

Ethan: I think there's always room for improvement for sure. And I think in a lot of sports it's still not I would say the norm. You don't really see a lot of people from the L-G-B-T-Q community not just within the sports industry as a whole, but specifically men's sports. Obviously, working for a men's soccer team and a women's soccer team, there's definitely a whole different vibe of acceptance within women's sports. And I don't know if it's because of just women and men's typical views towards the L-G-B-T-Q community, but definitely within men's sports there is need for improvement. And even just from my personal experience at other companies in the sports industry, it's definitely not, I would say, a priority to have L-G-B-T-Q inclusion or have special events that shines light on the community. So I definitely think there's room for improvement. And even when I was applying to jobs and clicking off certain boxes in my resume for recruiters, I kind of felt like clicking certain boxes might have hindered my ability to get a job within the sports industry or at certain companies. So I think that's also a huge issue that we have some certain boxes specifically towards the

L-G-B-T-Q community that signals us out. And it may hurt us actually more than it helps us.

Jamie: You get this really fine line because right now, as you know from not that long ago, graduating college and having siblings, we've now had this reverse discrimination or affirmative action I should say, where now there's changes being made because schools were allotting a certain amount of students to come in and they had to fit a certain demographic. And now people turned around and say, Hey, this is bs. I have a kid that has a 4.0, that is a white American from Westchester, or Scarsdale, or wherever they're from, and they didn't get in....but somebody with lesser grades from wherever.... we all know what I'm talking about. And so there's this push to not do it. But then again, the reason why that existed was because we were trying to create more inclusiveness, the same way that there's these rules on housing. You can't turn around as a real estate broker and say, Hey, I think that somebody comes in, they're from Turkey.

And you know what? Let's go show you places in Astoria because you know there's a big Turkish population living in Astoria. You don't do that. We're not allowed to do that. But at the same token, if we don't talk about the elephant in the room, then it's not going to get better either. It's like you're almost creating this new position probably in the sports world because just like coaches that work with teams, not on the field, but off the field. There's a lot of that that goes on there. I don't know what goes on, let's say in the soccer community, but I'm sure that behind the scenes there are psychiatrists, psychologists, people coming in there just to get them mentally tough, get them focused, change their mindset.

I think that maybe there's this need for people that do want to enter the sports world and feel that the opportunity is not there and maybe someone like you, or you personally will create a situation where there is that avenue where people can go ... and help them get in there. No different than the sports agent representing the players to pick the right team for them. I think it's great. I think that you're onto something, you may not know exactly what it is yet, but it sounds like you really are.

Ethan: Yeah, I definitely just enjoy working in the sports industry. Sports as a whole is definitely my passion and even the real estate industry, it's just such a great industry to learn, to have knowledge about just for life and maybe even investment purposes. It's a lot of life lessons within real estate as well. So it's definitely two great industries that I'm in. I have friends in both industries now, which is great, and just met a lot of great interesting people. So definitely have enjoyed my time in both and going to continue to keep working at both.

Jamie: That's fantastic. I wanted to just comment on something you said . You brought up how on the women's teams, you see a lot more openness and there's less resistance to it. It's out there more. It's more accepted. Whatever it is, it's a more comfortable environment. And I think that to an extent, you're in a very unique position because you're seeing that there's women's genes and men and women, we both women have testosterone in their bodies. Men and women both have different hormones going on that the other sex also has, and different levels of it might create different emotions, and women in general, they're sensitive, they think differently. There's been movies, there's been books: Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. And so you have a lot of that. And I think that, I don't know that many people that I've met that can understand both perspectives, and I think that it sounds like you're in a unique position to be able to understand both perspectives, which is why falling into a communications role might be just an amazing piece for you.

Ethan: Definitely. I feel like I'm in a very unique position where I can relate to a lot of people on a very big spectrum. And like you said, being in communications where your job is to literally communicate to men, women, and everyone else in between. Not only just work with them, but build a rapport and have a personal connection as well. So it's definitely a great position to be in. For myself, I used to be scared of these things or want to hide these things, and now it's like my superpower almost. Not just in the workforce, but just life in general. So it's great to be me.

Jamie: I literally have chills. I have goosebumps on my body from it. You're so lucky. You really are. You're so lucky because I know so many people in the industry that it took till they were 40 years old before they would've been sitting here having this conversation... and they felt it from the time they were a child. And that's so sad. You deserve to be comfortable. Who's to say what anybody should be wearing or what that means or anything like that. I learned a ton from you. I really did. And I wouldn't be surprised if your presence in your role at the New York Football Club or the various teams, I wouldn't be surprised if you are changing the culture there.

Ethan: Yeah, I hope so. That's kind of the goal as well with my journey in the sports industry. Not only have career goals myself, but hopefully change the industry as well. Show people that people like me, people from the L-G-B-T-Q community, that look a little different from the average person, they do like sports and want to work in sports. And also for anyone who maybe sees me and is scared to get into the industry and be themselves or get into a different industry and be themselves, maybe there's just a little more extra motivation that like, oh wow, if he's wearing a dress at a professional soccer game, working for the team, I could wear a dress to my accountant job or dress in a suit to whatever job I have...

Jamie: To my college graduation with my cap and gown and my high tops.

Ethan: Yeah, exactly.

Jamie: Which was surrounded by your frat boys... who love you.

Ethan: That was a great outfit for graduating for sure.

Jamie: It sure was!

Ethan: Thank you. I appreciate it. Still a lot of work. Still a lot more of the journey to go. It's not all glamorous and great. There was a lot of times where there was a lot of struggle. You just have to keep moving and just got to make the best of every situation you get.

Jamie: Kudos to you, Ethan. Thank you so much for being here. You are a superstar. Keep doing it. Keep in touch.

Ethan: Thank you for having me, Jamie. And if anyone ever wants to reach out, my email is schimelethan@gmail.com

Jamie: Okay, fantastic everyone. Thanks Ethan. Have yourself a great day.